BIG CITY BLUES April-May 2003 Issue Charlie and Henrietta Musselwhite: Life Long Learners, An Interview by Johnny Ace March 12th, 2003, Guerneville, California Ace: How did you two meet and what year? Charlie: 1967 in Berkeley, California. A piano player dropped by with David? Henrietta: No. Me ‘n James. Charlie: You and James. Ace: Who, Skip Rose? Charlie and Henri: Ya! Charlie: And it was love at fist sight. Ace: You serious? Henri? Henri: It really was. Ya! We looked at each other—and of course—that was the sixties and if you liked how somebody looked—you know what I mean—you didn’t have to know their name. Right? (They all laugh) But Charlie and I looked at each other and then Skip went “Oh Man!” You see, Charlie had just moved out to the West Coast from Chicago and James and I, my boyfriend at the time, were really big Charlie fans. Then it turned out that James’ old partner, Skip, was gonna get a job playing piano with Charlie. So it was unbelievably cool. And we all had gone to meet Charlie together. Ace: Wow! 1967! The summer of love or the summer of hate, depending on where you lived. I remember you got married in about 1980. Charlie: ‘81, January 26th. Ace: Up on Grant St. and your best man was John Lee Hooker. Charlie: Ya! Moonies Irish Pub. Ace: What do you two have in common that has kept you together from then until now? I mean its 2003! Honestly—what do you love about each other as friends and lovers. You are one of the only couples I know that are together this long in life. Charlie: I think the short answer is that we’re different enough that we’re always interested in each other, and at the same time we like the same things—so it’s always interesting. Henri: And we respect each other. He respected me from the first time that we were together—before we were married. I was trying to find out what he wanted from me and stuff. Charlie: I said I wanted her to be Henri. Henri: And this was when he was a total alcoholic, but he wasn’t trying to make me be anything. Any idea I would have, he would listen to it. And he would do it or he wouldn’t do it. It was very equal from the beginning—real cool. Charlie: We never had any trip about money. I know couples that sit around and say, “I spent this much on that and you should—” I don’t have time for that. We like the same books. We like movies. We like to travel. We like different cultures. We are both interested in life and people—foods from other cultures, other religions, other music. Henri: We are like best friends too. Charlie: I think we have adventurous hearts. Henri: Ya. Charlie: Best friends and lovers. Ace: If you get in an argument or a big fight, how do you apologize to each other? Henri: We don’t have arguments very often, but when we do have them, we both just get so hurt that one person or the other will come up and say, “Well would you like a hug?” (Charlie laughs) Charlie: We both wanna get it over with and back on track as fast as possible. Henri: And then we kind’ a go “Well what happened there?” Ace: So you talk? Henri: Ya. Arguments don’t happen much now. They happened more when we were drinking. Charlie: Ya. In the words of that old song “I’ll do anything you say as long as you do it my way.” Ya. You win! (Looking at Henri—everyone laughs). Ace: Ya! The Joe Williams-Count Basie song, “All Right Ok!” Charlie: Ya—I changed the words a little bit. Ace: Now Henri—I remember in the past you used to manage Charlie. Henri: Still do. Ace: Do you wana talk about that at all? Henri: Ya. That really works out well because we keep all the decisions in our home and nobody has to come to us and say “If Charlie and the band go to Europe for two weeks would that be ok?” I already know what’s going on, and that makes it real smooth. Ace: Henri. Do you travel with Charlie to all the gigs? Henri: Only the fun ones! (Laughing) Charlie: I can’t get her to go to let’s say Cleveland—but she’ll go to Paris. We both have offices downstairs, and bedrooms, and a hallway in between, and a phone in each room. We both work in our offices and we visit back and forth, and we holler down the hall! She has her computer and I have mine. Her phone—my phone. So all daylong or a good part of the day we are working on one angle or the other of the business. Ace: So you’re a team! (Clapping hands loudly and smiling) Henri and Charlie together: Ya! Ace: Do you still enjoy going out and listening to blues or other acts? Do you have the time and find that enjoyable? Charlie: Ya! It’s great to go out and see B.B. (King). B.B. still is doin’ it night after night 110%. He’s a great artist and a great blues player. Henri: And when we go out on one of those blues cruises, it’s 24-hour-a-day music and it’s all blues. It’s pretty great to be surrounded by that. Ace: Doesn’t it bother you? Do you get any privacy? Charlie: Ya. They know you’re there the whole time and they don’t have to go and chase you down. It’s not like an isolated incident when they see you on the sidewalk or something. On the cruises it’s like everybody’s there and everybody’s gonna be there and when they have a chance, they might come up and ask you for an autograph or they’ll just say hello and say how much they like your music. You never feel overwhelmed. Henri: Occasionally someone will get real drunk and stupid but that can happen anywhere. Charlie. Ya. It’s like a great time—a festival on the water! And everyone has a back stage pass. I think that’s the way Taj Mahal describes it. Henri: Ya. Ace: Are there any blues festivals that you love to play at or go to? Henri: Ya. The San Francisco Blues Festival is a great festival. Charlie: I like The Sunflower River Blues and Gospel Festival in Clarksdale, Mississippi because it’s free and I think only people from Mississippi play there. You go there and see that blues is alive and well in the Delta. It’s another part of the south—where blacks and whites are all together and having a great time. It’s real down home! Henri: We have a friend down there that has a big old house in the heart of Clarksdale, and Charlie says her front porch is in the exact center of the South. Charlie: Ya. There’s a spot on her front porch that is the exact center of the heart of the South. Ace: It’s the vortex! Henri: Ya! Charlie: It may be under the swing—it kind’ a moves around (Grinning) Ace: Wow! Henri: It’s just always fun to be there. Charlie: Ya. And you get cheese grits! And all the people go there and—how do I describe it –a lady hosts a Faulkner type festival—Faulkner came from there … (Referring to William Faulkner, author) Henri: Faulkner lived right across the street! Charlie: They have these southern suares with ice mint tea and they all read passages from Faulkner’s books. There’s a lady there who dresses up in a period costume and she delivers lines from his books. Henri: And they also have a Tennessee Williams festival ‘cause he was from there too. We were talking about these energy vortexes before! Clarksdale is one for me! It’s where things happen! Things happen on such a deep emotional level. You can see why the blues started in the Delta. It’s so heavy duty when you’re there. You can’t help but get it. And if you’re open, you’re gonna have an experience—and it’s been amazing. Charlie: And if you’re open and you go to the Delta, you will be changed; you can just feel the blues—like it’s coming up out of the ground. It’s in the trees, it’s in the grass, the way people walk and talk, the food; it’s just in the air. Ace: But we are getting away from you two. Charlie: That’s a band! Ace: What? Charlie: U2! That’s a band! Ace: Oh Charlie! Save your jokes for the butcher! (Laughing) Charlie: I’m sorry! (Laughing) Henri: I really respect Charlie’s music, speaking from a manager’s point of view. And I would never, as a manager, encourage Charlie to do something he isn’t comfortable doing. I encourage him to do things that I think are good for his career, but they have to be in the comfort factor. Sometimes we do have a little deal that happens where I say, “If you want me to manage you, you have to listen to what I have to say.” Charlie: Like for instance, I used to have these old beatter (beat up) guitars that I would play around the house. And she kept telling me, “Other people would like to hear that! You should do that on stage!” And finally she said, “You ought’ a have a good guitar and if you get it and spend the money on it—you gotta play it—on stage!” That was a deal! And it turned out that I actually enjoyed doing it and people liked it! Now I am doing solo shows. Henri: And now that’s about 1/3 of his year now. (Booking) Charlie: And we just finished putting together a whole solo album—just playing guitar with harp and a rack. And I wrote all the tunes and it’s just me. Henri: And we are going to own it and sell it off the stage. Charlie: And have a record with our own record company. Henri: All ours! Ace: That’s great! Charlie and Henri: Ya! We’re happy. Charlie: It’s called “Darkest Hour.” Ace: Can you give any advice that would help other couples young or old get along better and be happier in life. Charlie: Think about your partner and think about what they’re going through. It’s not just about you—it’s about both of you—it’s about being considerate, thoughtful, sharing and loving. I see couples where it seems like a lot of their problems are because each one wants everything to go their way, not thinking about the other. They’re doing things and maybe it’s contrary to what the other person might want. You have to meet each other half way. Henri: When people are arguing, they don’t listen to the other person. You have to listen and respect what the other person is saying. But I don’t think anybody can make it as a couple unless they fall totally in love. That’s where the beginning has to be. It’s hard—and you won’t make it unless you have that love deeply entrenched—almost like love from a previous life. It can be rough—not that it’s so rough for us now—but in the early years it was no picnic. Charlie: Ya. If you’re into drugs and alcohol, you aught to think about getting that straightened out before you make a commitment to somebody, because life ain’t easy and keeping a marriage, partnership, a friendship or a loveship together is hard enough anyhow with just the things life throws at you day to day. So anytime drugs and alcohol get mixed in—unless you’re a normal person that can just have a drink and that’s it—I’m not that person—that can kill it—that can break it up. Henri: And keep the sex going! Ace: Ride! Henri: I mean make an effort to keep sex going because as your relationship matures that can like go away if you don’t make an effort. Don’t take it for granted that the person’s going to be there tomorrow. Because the person might not be there tomorrow. You can have a car accident, you know. Charlie: Don’t get so caught up in your hobby, your business, or whatever you— Henri: Cleaning the house! (All laugh) Charlie: Watching TV or collecting records—whatever it is—so that you forget about business. (All laugh again) Henri: Charlie brings flowers all the time. Charlie: And when I can’t bring them, I have them delivered. Henri: One time I was camping and I went for a walk and came back and there was a beautiful bouquet of roses at my tent door. Ace: That’s so beautiful! When you’re on the road, how do you communicate? Charlie: When I’m out on the road, I call her at least once a day. Ace: Do you have a song? Henri: (Slight Pause) Well that might be “Cristo Redempto.” Charlie: It’s a good one; I’m still doing it and almost every time I play it it’s different. Henri: See for him it probably wouldn’t be our song because he was playing it before we ever got together. Charlie: Ya. I was playing it in Chicago. Henri: “Darkest Hour” is a real meaningful song for me. Johnny, did you ever hear that one? Ace: Is that on your new solo CD? Charlie: Ya. I think it’s also one of my older ones, “Rough Moods.” Ace: I wanna wrap it up. Is there anything else that you would like to say to add to this interview? Henri: Charlie and I, we see our spirituality in the same way. We don‘t express it in the same way or practice it in the same way, but we’re on the same level. And if I say something about what’s going on with me, he gets it. And if he says something to me, I get it. We see signs. That may be a sort of a hokey way to put it. Ace: No it isn’t. Henri: But you just go with the energy more. And the clearer you get as a human being, the more you can operate in the energy fields. It’s really true. Charlie: Ya! I think another way of saying what she’s saying or how I think about it is that both of us are still like life long learners. We’re still trying to improve ourselves and we’re still reaching to be better people. Speaking for myself, I like to stay on my case. I don’t want to let myself get too cocky, like I got it all figured out. Like—ok —that’s not now—I don’t have to think about that anymore. No—it ain’t like that. No. This goes on forever—the learning. I’m still trying to refine who I am and how I feel and think about life. What life is about and what it means, I don’t know if it’s something you ever figure out. Maybe Ghandi figured it out. Ace: That’s just who I was thinking about. Charlie: I don’t know if I’ll ever get that far, but I like to think I’m on the path going in the right direction. I at least want to think that. I’m on the path! Ace: Well Charlie and Henri, I think you’re definitely on the right path and you surely inspire me. Charlie: We think you’re on it too. Henri: Ya. Charlie: Life is so short. When you’re a teenager, life is like a brand new roll of toilet paper. It will never run out. You can just rip it off the wall. But as you approach your golden years, you count each little square. And especially for me—I think of all the time I wasted drinking and how I can’t go back and redo that time. And so life isn’t endless. So, I really want to make the best of what I have and live the best I can. Henri: One more thing—people should honor what ever comes across their path because it’s there for a reason. And I think if you don’t avoid things that are there—for you to look at—that’s how you develop. Read the signs. Don’t try to go around them, above them, or underneath them. Just work through them and embrace it all. Charlie: It’s like the old spiritual: “Lord, don’t move my mountain, that mountain’s there for me to climb.” Ace: That’s beautiful. I think we should end with those words. Charlie and Henri: OK! Charlie Musselwhite’s new CD is called “Darkest Hour” can be purchased at ______________________________